Dante Ross – UnKut Interviews (Pt. 1-3)

Those of us that read liner notes and were interested who was behind the scenes in hip-hop are pretty familiar with who Dante Ross is. This man was pretty much connected to every dope hip-hop group and artists in the 90s (remember seeing the SD50 remix for everything?).  This was especially true when Elektra was popping off with KMD, Leaders of the New School, and Brand Nubian.  Its a good but long read starting with his days at Tommy Boy to present day working with Del and Casual.  He also drops some gems about Grand Puba. Parts 1 through 3 are after the jump for your reading pleasure.

There was a time when being an A&R in rap music actually meant something more than the guy who’s trying to find out what records you’re sampling so he can become a producer. Dante Ross actually gave a fuck about the projects he worked on, which is why he was involved in hip-hop milestones such as Mecca & The Soul Brother, All For One and 3 Feet High & Rising to name a few. I won’t go into his full bio here but everything will be covered in future installments. To kick things off, we chopped it up about his formative years in the music biz.

Robbie: When were you working with RUSH Management?

Dante Ross: ’87. That was fun as hell. I got my job ‘cos Ricky Powell went on tour with the Beastie Boys and they gave me a job as the messenger, his replacement. I guess I had half a brain on my fuckin’ head, and I was a crazy little kid, so I ended-up gettin’ a real job workin’ with Eric B. & Rakim, being a road manager. Which led me to later on getting an A&R job at Tommy Boy records. I worked there for a while – it was actually cool. I worked with Lyor and it was a crazy job and I half hated it, half loved it. But I got my foot in the door.

And then De La ended-up featuring you in the comic on the first album…

It was funny – my friend’s brother did that comic. I gave the guy the job who did that comic. This is real talk, too – I had the option to change the comic and to take my name off the shit, and I told ‘em, ‘Nah, that shit it cool’. For me and them, it was jokes. I would just go hard on those dudes like all the time. The reason they called me a ‘Scrub’ is ‘cos I always called them ‘scrubs’, and they never heard no one say that before. Like ‘Fuckin’ scrubs!’ or ‘Shut up, ya scrubs!’ That was like my favorite shit to say. So it backfired on me, ‘cos I said it so much they were like, ‘OK, motherfucker!’ And they got me! Little known fact is that I gave Maseo the name ‘Baby Huey’. Ask him, ‘cos I was like, ‘Fuck you, Baby Huey!’ Back in the day. I have so many crazy stories with those dudes. I took ‘em to their first show ever at Payday in New York. They opened for Stetsasonic. We only had like two songs to do, and Stetsasonic didn’t want to perform ‘cos the sound was all fucked-up, so De La performed twice. They did the same shit twice – they killed it! It was unbelievable.

I’ma tell you the De La Soul story now, so get you’re fuckin’ recorder on. The way I heard they shit was, Monica Lynch was interviewing me for the job at Tommy Boy. She played it for me – and I get a lot of credit for this, and maybe I don’t deserve as much credit – she said, ‘I’m gonna sign this. What do think of this?’ And it was that shit. Prince Paul had been telling me about it and had played it for me once before. I was like, ‘That shit is crazy! It’s so dusted. It reminds me of Slick Rick but it’s like it’s own shit’. And she was like, ‘Yeah, well we’re gonna give you the job and that’s the first record you’re working on’. I was like, ‘Bet!’ I got the test-pressing, I ran around and took it to everyone, and people started playing it. It was the first time that I knew maybe I was right. I was like, ‘Fuck! I know something!’ Monica Lynch was singing it whether I was there or not, but I was the co-sign ‘cos she was like, ‘That’s your first project’.

‘Potholes In my Lawn’?

Yeah. That was great working there. I signed Queen Latifah. First, 45 King came up to me, he knew who I was, at the Latin Quarters. He put headphones in my ear, on a fuckin’ Walkman, and said, ‘Yo, listen’. I knew who he was, knew what he looked like. It was like some crazy promo he used to have on Red Alert, that was nuts! He played me beats, I was like, ‘Oh my god! You’re incredible!’ I’d never even heard nothing like that. I was just so impressed. I was like, ‘You have any groups?’ He was like, ‘Yeah, I got my whole Flavor Unit. I’ma come play you shit’. He couldn’t find my number or something, he called me the next couple of days with Fab Five Freddy on the phone – he called me three-way – and he stared playing me artists over the phone. He played me Queen Latifah, and I was like, ‘She sounds dope!’ He brought her to meet me, it was great. Then we fuckin’ signed, then we played basketball down the block from Tommy Boy, and she was with my man Latee. He was man forever, big-up to Latee. Lord Ali-Baski – that was my man Taheed – he was down with them dudes, he was friend, I knew him from downtown when I was young, so I had a connection with them dudes. Long story short, I ended up signing her and I was there when we made the first two singles. I wish I had stayed there to make more records with her, but she was great, man. I knew she had the shit from day one. It’s the thing that my mom’s most proud of I ever did. She’s like, [old woman’s voice] ‘You signed Queen Latifah!’ I’m like, ‘Yeah, mom. Tell everybody again…’

How come you didn’t you sign the rest of the Flavor Unit? Were they already signed?

Who the hell knows why I did anything, man? I was smoking blunts half the time. Digital Underground – that’s one that I get underrated for. They came to Tommy Boy, this dude named Ed Strickland, he was friends with Atron Gregory – he knew from TNT Records through Macola – he brought ‘Doowhatchulike’ to me. He said, ‘This record’s hot in the bay’. I said, ‘That record is hot’. I played it for De La Soul in the conference room at Tommy Boy records. Motherfuckers said, ‘Sign that, B!’ I signed that shit I never got to work with those motherfuckers! And no one knows I signed fuckin’ Digital Underground! That’s real talk. I signed ‘em and knew I was maybe gonna take another job!

So people started hollering at me to give me another job. I wanted Puba to produce Latifah, but he kept missin’ meetings. Then he came one day and said, ‘I’ve got this group, Brand Nubian’. He had one song – ‘Ain’t Gonna Out Like That’ – off some James Brown loop. I swear to god – Cypress Hill – god bless, my brothers from another mother, but that hook that they had for that song was the same Brand Nubian hook. And I know that Muggs heard that song [laughs] God bless, I love you Muggs – no slight – but the demo that we never used? That became a Cypress Hill song! Shit happened, and that’s real! [laughing] People don’t even know. So anyway, I told him, ‘Yo Puba, fall back, B. I’ma take this job at Elektra and we gonna make it crack over there. I got more money for you’. ‘Cos I was fuckin’ starving workin’ at Tommy Boy. I was selling weed out the office, I was no money havin’ guy. When I worked there, this is my other hustle – this is great. I sold weed, I fuckin’ booked show and was the road manager. I would take Latifah and De La Soul to Los Angeles, and make like $300. And I might DJ for Latifah! That’s so fucked-up, right? That was like my old school hustle when I was like 22, 23 years-old. Like, ‘I’m you’re A&R, your Road Manager this weekend and your DJ’. Let’s go!’ And we’d go do a show for KDAY. That’s how I met Muggs, that’s how I met Everlast – goin’ to LA with De La Soul and Latifah.

Back in the 7A3 era?

7A3…OK, here’s a great 7A3 story. I was in World On Wheels – that’s the fuckin’ Crip’d out spot in LA – some crazed club. We’re performing, De La Soul, they’re performing – 7A3 – their song called ‘Why’, I think it’s on the Colors soundtrack. I looked out, everyone’s wearing blue! Everyone had Cowboys and Georgetown and Yankee’s shit on…I’m like, ‘What the fuck? I’m in LA! Everyone’s wearin’ blue!’ And dude’s got curls and everything, and 7A3 go on before us and do that song, ‘Why does a brother have to die for the color of a rag?’ I looked out in the audience and they’re throwing flags, ‘THAT’S WHY, MOTHERFUCKER!’ Seeing dude’s trippin’ out, I was buggin! I’ve never seen that shit before, I swear to good I was like *Ga-Gonk*, like ‘Ohhhhhh shit! This shit is GANG-RELATED! This is gang-banged out!’ I’m with De La Soul and we’re wearing fuckin’ peace-signs and dashikis, I might have one leg fuckin’ rolled-up and the crazy Air Max with a striped shirt on and a flat-top, lookin’ just crazy. Dude’s were harassing them during their set, and De La Soul went out and did ‘Plug Tunin’ and they fuckin’ killed it! Real talk – rocked! Then we ended-up hangin’ with 7A3, we went to a BBQ at Muggs house. That’s where I linked with Muggs and stayed friends with him forever. Cypress Hill was down with De La Soul before Cypress Hill was Cypress Hill.

Following on from Part One, we move onto Dante’s time at Elektra Records, where assembled an all-star cast of artists, including Ol’ Dirty Bastard, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Brand Nubian, KMD and Busta Rhymes.

Robbie: What was your process for finding groups to sign?

Dante Ross: I met every group I ever knew from somebody who was probably making records at the time. Obviously Puba was already making records, ‘cos he was in Masters of Ceremony when I met ‘em. Even with KMD, I met from 3rd Bass initially. Leaders of the New School, I actually saw them do a show – but I knew about ‘em already and I knew they were affiliated with the Bomb Squad. It’s never a blind solicitation process, so it’s never really work. I produced some records where I didn’t know the groups, but it just was never as fun.

How did you come into contact with Pete Rock?

Pete Rock used to be on the radio, he used to be on WBLS. I worked with this dude named Raoul Roach, who was really into Heavy D & The Boyz – who were never my cup of tea – so he was cultivating a relationship with Eddie F. Eddie F’s artist was Pete Rock, he asked me how I felt about Pete Rock and I said, ‘I’ve heard his demos on the air, I like him’. He wanted to do it but he didn’t want to do it if I didn’t do it with him, so we signed them together. He got let go right after that, and I ended-up working with them from then on in. That was always a pleasure – Pete and CL were easy to work with to me – they showed up and they were cool. Pete Rock is a really good guy, he put me up on records. I’d be hard pressed to say anything bad about that experience really, Pete was awesome. I wish the second record had sold better, ‘cos I thought it was great. I think we kinda mishandled it a little bit – me included – with what was going on.

He seems so serious about the music…

And the beats! When I first met Pete he didn’t really smoke weed, and I’m a big weed head, and I used to see him start to smoke more and more and he got a little more weeded-out. [chuckles]

You mentioned something about Serch and Bosco Money hearing something you were working on and they bugged out?

I played Puba for them. I played ‘Step To The Rear’ and ‘Who Can Get Busy Like This Man’, and them dudes didn’t know what to do. Bosco looked like he was gonna shit his pants, and Serch was like, ‘Yo, that’s on some next shit!’ I remember that clearly, that was like craze. Puba was so good back then – he was just incredible, he was just the best. If he hadn’t fucked it up? Wow, he was great. Like I look at Everlast – and I’m like, ‘He ain’t the best rapper, he’s not the greatest singer; he’s a good songwriter. He’s a great personality – meaning he’s very good at being a star – he’s a very interesting character. But he’s never as purely talented as a Puba, right? But he’s done so much more with his career. He did so many different things and went so far with his career because he’s driven and he’s into it and he’s positive about how he handles his shit. It’s a shame, you look at Puba – I mean, look at Busta, same thing. Like Busta made so much money…Puba probably could’ve made money like Busta, but he just didn’t go about it right. [In radio announcer’s voice] And that my friends – that’s the rap game!

But I don’t know if Puba ever had that star quality like someone Busta does…he was a trend-setter though.

Nah, he doesn’t. But he invented ‘swag’! Who invented having swagger? Puba was talkin’ about all that shit way back when. He was the flyest dude, dressed the best – when he said a brand’s name, it was on. Nah’mean? He built Tommy Hilfinger! He should be getting checks to this…and Girbaud and a bunch of other shit, man. He was always a fly motherfucker.

But frustrating to deal with?

Grand Puba…I’ll say this – and I’ve said it to him – he’s the world’s greatest under-achiever. He was an amazing rapper and there really was a point when he was like ‘the dude’ – he really was ‘The Man’ – he really could’ve had a lengthy little run. And for whatever reason – and I’ve seen a bunch of people do this – he didn’t take advantage of the situation, he was really irresponsible and wasted a lot of people’s time and energy – his own included – and never got to maximize his talent. That’s a sad thing. At the end of the day, Puba definitely mismanaged his career. He was a screw-up. I still try to believe in him, but it’s tough sometimes.

It seemed like on the 2000 album that he just showed-up to the studio and did his rhyme and that was it.

Yeah, there was a lot of that. You can hear that he was just trying to get paid. He wasn’t into tryin’ to make great art, and that’s what it became for him, like it was a hustle. So many things, when they’re really easy for people, take them for granted.

The ‘International Zone Coaster 12” had like seven remixes on it…what was up with that?

Yeah, that was a weird one. OK, here’s the story with that…for some reason they had a problem with my remix, then they wanted to do their remix and maybe someone else did a remix at that point. It was a lotta problems at that point with me and Leaders of the New School. That was a tough boat to always sail…I’ll leave it at that.

Too many personalities to deal with?

Yeah, man. They had problems amongst themselves, and I would get caught in the middle sometimes. It was a tense situation…but, you know, I’ve worked in a lotta tense situations! It’s kinda par for the course half the time.

It must be like working at a day-care center sometimes.

Yeah, there’s a lotta babysitting involved in the music game. I kinda got sick of babysitting and also polishing turds – that’s not so fun to me. I’m fuckin’ 41 years-old, it’s not as fun as it used to be. I’m not as tolerant as I once was I guess. I do a lotta other creative stuff, like I write for magazines and I started trying to produce TV shows with Sasha Jenkins. The rap game is in a bad place so I’d rather just have nice memories of it than try and force the issue right now.

What was your worst day ever as an A&R?

There was a bunch of ‘em, man. There’s so many of ‘em. Wow…Leaders of the New School breaking up on MTV, basically. That was fucked. Charlie Brown like broke the band up on TV or some shit – thank god they didn’t run that shit, ‘cos I was gonna fuckin’ puke!

So what happened there? I thought the brass as Elektra pulled Busta aside and said, ‘We’re gonna make you a solo artist.’

That never happened, that’s all bullshit. Let me tell you what happened, ‘cos I was there. When Leaders of the New School turned in their second album it was bad – from me to you, it wasn’t a good record. I tried to change the record, make it better. They went back in the studio, had to do it again. It wasn’t working. Busta though, I knew was a star. Busta was killing it on the ‘Scenario’ remix, and when we went to make the second Leaders of the New School record I had Q-Tip ready to help me make the whole record with them, like the way he did for Mobb Deep’s album. None of them dude’s were with it except Bus, and I saw right there that Bus is smarter than these dudes – he’s thinking. I’m gonna be honest with you, making that record – when they turned it in the first time, and I knew it was wack and I sent back in – I told Chris Lighty and Lyor Cohen, ‘It’s time to think about Busta doin’ a solo record.’ In the interim of that record comin’ out, ‘Flava In Ya Ear’ [remix] came out, so I was verified that he was a star to me. I knew the record was bad, that when they turned it in the second time I couldn’t make it no better – they would not let me. I was like, ‘Yo, put them record out, it’s not gonna perform but let’s get Busta thinkin’ solo deal’. And that’s what happened. I’m the person that was behind that – I gave him his solo deal. And he’ll tell you that – he always says I’m his A&R guy. I discovered him and I told him to go solo. And that’s real talk – I did. So you can’t blame no one, Charlie Brown and all them guy’s theories and all that – I’m the one who threw it in the air, but it had sorted itself. Busta was meant to be a solo artist.

Were you involved with the ‘Whoo-ha!!’ remix with Ol’ Dirty?

Yes I was, and that was right when I left. I left right when that record came out. Here’s another thing – Wu-Tang put the single out, I went to meet them all at Bobitto’s station. I heard Dirty up there and Meth up there, they were all up there. I jetted up there, I met them. I met RZA, RZA knew me and word is bond, RZA that night when he seen me, he’s like, ‘Yo, I know you, B! You knew me when I was wack!’

Ha! From his Tommy Boy days!

Yeah, yeah! He told me that shit, I’m like, ‘This dude is a character!’ I was like, ‘Come see me’. They was comin’ to my office to see me, this dude ain’t show up – Method Man – he brought Ol’ Dirty, and I was like enamored with Dirty. I said, ‘I gotta sign this dude! I gotta sign him.’ But I told RZA, ‘Yo, I wanna sign Dirty and Method Man. It’s gonna be a group that’s gonna be Run-DMC for the next ten years.’ He was like, ‘Nah, that’s not goin’ down. I’ma put this dude Meth over here – pow! This dude’s goin’ over here…you get Dirty.’ So I signed Dirty. I had his demo – his demo only had five songs. Those five songs are on the album – they sound about 12% better on the album than they did on the demo, crusty tape that I had, and that’s real talk too. I would play that demo for all my dudes, ‘cos great rappers have a great ear. So I would play it for Puba, [Sadat] X, Lord Jamar, Bus…so that shit was a hit with other rappers. Dig it? So they would all come to my office and ask me to play it, and them dudes loved that shit! So I knew it was gonna work. And I’m telling you – when I was making that record, I had a serious relationship issue I was goin’ through, and my relationship fell apart ‘cos I focused on making Dirty’s record. ‘Cos I knew that Dirty’s record was a timeless experience – like it was one of the only times in my life that I was aware of that fact, ‘I’m makin’ a record, I gotta get to the finish line, ‘cos this may never happen again.’ I had to capture the moment – and I made it! It was great. My man passed, I loved him to death, and I wrote an obituary about him in Mass Appeal. He was just a great dude, I loved that dude. He’s the biggest character of anyone I ever, ever, ever worked with in my entire life.

He was true rock star. Is it true that Busta felt like Dirty was kinda using his style when he first heard him?

No way. That’s absolute bullshit. He mighta felt that way about Onyx – he definitely didn’t feel that way about Dirty. He loved Dirty, that was his man! That was the good thing about Elektra – all my groups was cool with each other, man. I shoulda signed House of Pain and I didn’t, ‘cos I was like, ‘To throw the white boys in the dynamic – my brothers might be a little mad at me.’ I was like, ‘I dunno if I can fuck with that. That might really make my shit all crazy.’

Really?

Real talk, man. I was like, ‘The Gods might not appreciate it.’ I gotta say, working with all those groups I mentioned, and working with Doom and KMD and all that? All that shit was dope, man. I can’t say nothin’ bad about none of my groups.

The other aspect of Dante Ross’ career that’s noteworthy to rap fiends are the classic tracks he produced with John Gamble under the Stimulated Dummies banner. Providing beats for acts such as 3rd Bass, Hard 2 Obtain, Shazzy, Del, Grand Puba, KMD, Casual and Kurious Jorge to name a few, producing provided yet another outlet for the Dante to catch wreck. In the final part of our conversation, he speaks on working with Santana, the Stimulated records label and the Hieroglyphics crew.

Robbie: At what stage did you get into producing?

Dante Ross: I saw Prince Paul and those guys doin’ it, I had a lotta records and I kinda thought, ‘Hey, I could probably figure out the S-900 and the sequencer if I tried’ – and I did. I had a couple of partners who were doin’ shit, they had a little studio, so me and the SD’s kinda became a little team and shit. It was me, John Gamble and my boy Geeby Dajani. We had a basement studio and we started making shit. The first stuff was like Brand Nubian, Leaders of the New School first record, some stuff for 3rd Bass…I think the first thing we ever did was for Shinehead. I started working on 3rd Bass ‘cos they were my friends. Sam Sever had used some records I’d put him up on, so I figured why not just hook ‘em up myself?

You also had the period where you were producing Everlast and working with Santana.

Workin’ on them records with Eric was really beautiful, I hope one day we do it again actually. That was really fun to do something that wasn’t ‘rap music’ per say, it had elements of all the stuff I like – the blues, hip-hop, pop and soul music. I got to take off the ‘hip-hop’ coat and spread my wings a little bit. Of all the people I’ve ever worked with in my whole life, I think that the stuff that I am the most proud of [is the Everlast stuff], and people don’t really recognize it in my career as much as I personally do. Maybe because I didn’t A&R the record I had a little more freedom in exploring that emotional side and the relationship to it. I did a lot of stuff for Korn – I did like six or seven remixes for them – and all those other heavy bands, and that stuff was cool because it’s a challenge to make it something that you really dig. I did stuff on the 8 Mile record that was cool and I worked with Macy Grey and shit like that.

Everlast has been an interesting character, even back when he was the so-called ‘pretty boy’ of the Rhyme Syndicate.

Yeah, ‘Never Givin’ A Fuck’ was my shit. When I first started fuckin’ with him and he was fuckin’ with Muggs and shit, I was on some, ‘Yo! I like ‘Never Givin’ A Fuck. That was my shit!’ He’s like, ‘You know that? That’s cool that you know that shit.’ I never really fucked with the Rhyme Syndicate apart from Everlast…not even Donald D. I had the records but I never listened to ‘em – except for my man Divine [Styler]! I mean I liked Divine and Eric! That’s how fucked-up I am. I just love that weirdo rap.

Weren’t they sharing a house and dropping acid together?

Yeah. Everlast told me he was living in a shack it the back of Bilal Bashir’s house with fuckin’ Divine, takin’ acid like every day for a month. It’s crazy too, because when I was about 15, 16 I was all into skateboarding, started getting into punk rock, I used to take acid all the fuckin’ time! So it’s kinda weird that me and him relate the way we do, and I think maybe some of it comes from that fuckin’ brain damage from takin’ acid as a teenager. Fuckin’ this dude too – Del – is the same shit. I’m a psychedelic dude, so I guess there’s something to be said of that kindred spirit of psychedelicness. I got over really young – I’m a dude that did all my drugs before I was twenty years old. I just smoke pot and drink beer for like the last twenty years.

You also produced the song that Everlast did on the Santana album?

I worked on three songs with Santana. I did the one that was on the album that Everlast sang, ‘Put Your Lights On. The funny shit about that song is the drum loop was in a song I did with Casual that never came out. After we sent them the demo I went out to Cali and we did the shit. It was dope working with this band and working with Carlos, he was a mad cool dude and they had a lotta respect for our vision. That was a very spiritual experience to work with someone who’s not only someone I looked up to musically but someone my parents really dug. So to be involved that he recorded that my friend wrote was cool. Another thing is, that’s the first song that Eric had recorded and wrote since he had the heart attack. It’s very abstract but the imagery is kinda about that, so it was also emotional when we were doin’ it. That was one of the only times in my whole life I pinched myself, like, ‘Yo, I’m really here right now. This is crazy!’ I actually played percussion with them on the song, it was crazy. That was super-dope. I got paid really good money for it, and I got a huge royalty off that record a couple of times. I still get checks for it. And I won a Grammy! It was great. I got to work with again and working with dude is always cool, man. One thing about that guy is he lets me produce him. And it made me think about all the times a rap motherfucker would not let me produce him and made me into a beat motherfucker instead of a producer. I’m workin’ with this dude Carlos Santana – who’s a legend – and he’s letting me produce him. I’ll be honest – when it comes to producing music, I’m probably a better producer than a beat maker. I understand arrangement, I can play a little bit, I understand harmony, melody – I understand things that are far beyond chopping a loop up. It’s so funny, ‘cos my hip-hop career crazy overshadows that shit. People don’t give a fuck. People are more concerned at like, ‘What happened when guys made ‘Peachfuzz” Than a song I made a Grammy with. The irony of life…

One thing I gotta say – I had a partner through all this stuff named John Gamble. Up until the second Everlast record I worked on, damn near everything I ever did with him. He was like the engineer of the team, but also a producer, and he’s an incredibly underrated part of the element. Geeby Dajani, he was my partner in the beginning. He put us together and then he wasn’t really involved from a really early point, after maybe the first Brand Nubian record I didn’t really fuck with him on music too much after that. Maybe H2O a little bit, but that was it. The thing was I was more dominant in making the music, so we kinda had to stop working together ‘cos I was just too ambitious and driven, so I just kinda went for mine. The whole time though, I had Gamble next to me, helping me clean my shit up, make it sound better, fixing up my programming – very underrated element. I was just wanna give him thanks, props and praise. I just wanna shout out my partner John Gamble, ‘cos he’s an ill dude.

How about Del? He seems like a real character. He’s pretty out there.

Working with Del was great, that dude is awesome. Still my friend to this day, I love that guy. He’s fuckin’ bugged, man. He’s burnt, but he’s awesome. That’s my dude! Anyone talkin’ shit about Del? Fuck you. He’s great. That’s my little bro and shit. Souls of Mischief, him, Casual – all those guys, I fucked with them hardcore. I don’t know if you know, but I connected Domino with Hieroglyphics. I used to record shop at Groove Merchant; the guys who owned Ubiquity Records – Jody McFadden and Michael McFadden – they said, ‘Oh, there’s a kid in the back who makes beats. He’s great, you should meet him. He’s cool.’ I met him – it was Domino. I played him ‘Wake Up’ by Brand Nubian, that had the Night Lighters sample – the version I did that – he liked that shit. He played me a joint he did that had the same fuckin’ loop! I was buggin’. I told him, ‘I’m gonna sign with Del The Funky Homosapian – Ice Cube’s cousin – I want you to meet them.’ He used to rap, his rappin’ was meh, his beats were dope. He started fuckin’ with them and the next thing you know he became the dude doin’ a lotta their beats and their manager.

What happened with Stimulated Records?

I had a label with Loud, I had fun, I was unfocused. I was busy making Everlast records and Korn records. I could’ve done more with it if I’d been more focused, but I was havin’ fun with it. I was in love, I had a very serious woman at that point, and also I was doing big records. I got to follow my dream and make so rock records so it was cool.

So you only released the Sadat X EP and the compilation?

I’ma keep it real – the real reason I did the compilation was I knew they were gonna go out of business, I figured I was gonna lose my deal and it was a way for me to get a lot of money. I made a lot of money doing that record. Here’s the deal – I had to get out of my publishing deal, and the way I got out of my publishing deal was I co-wrote half that album. So I used that to get the back-end of my publishing, which was like a couple of hundred thousand dollars. So that was my hustle on makin’ that record. Real talk, I was like, ‘You know what? Lemme see if I can pull this off.’ And I pulled it off. That record was cool and very fun to make. I knew it wouldn’t sell a lot but it had a couple of good songs on it.

What about the Kurious stuff?

I know I said some shit about Jorge but I love Kurious. He’s one of the best freestyle rappers I ever seen. In San Francisco I seen Kurious Jorge at the radio station, freestyle in front of CL Smooth – like ten dudes with deals – and fuckin’ slay everybody. The best shit that I ever did with him, nobody ever heard. Same with Casual. I did so many songs with Casual that people never heard. I have like thirty songs with that dude that no one heard.

Are you ever going to put ‘em out?

Maybe. We keep talkin’ about it, but who’d put it out?

You knew Paul C. as well?

That was my man! I went record shopping with him. He fuckin’ put me up on ‘Skull Snaps’ and some other shit. The dude was great. Much respect. He was the first person to let me know that ‘Get Out of My Life Woman’. ‘Any time you see that record, go get that!’ When people stopped fucking with breaks, that’s when rap music got corny. To me, it lost a lot of the soul.